668
(2)
The Chairman (to Honourable N. G. Mitchell-Innes).-Mr. Mitchell-Innes, by virtue of this letter I propose to open this Commission to-day, and I think the first person to be called is yourself. You will give us some information as to how the books were kept and so on, in order that we may see what further evidence we shall require.
Honourable N. G. Mitchell-Innes (Colonial Treasurer) called.
The Chairman.-When were you appointed Colonial Treasurer? A.-At the beginning of 1891.
Q.-Did you take office at once?
A. Yes.
Q.-How long had you been in the service before that?
A. For about 9 years.
Q.-What positions have you held?
A.-I had been Assistant Registrar General, Assistant Colonial Secretary, Acting Police Magistrate, Acting Superintendent of the Gaol, and Acting Registrar General.
Q.-When you took over the Treasuryship did you see what books were kept or what was the system of accounts?
A.-I went generally through them.
Q. What books were kept when you took up the position?
A.-The books then were practically the same as they now are. There is a cash book, journal, and ledger, counterfoil receipt books, and subsidiary books for the collection of different items. There is also a Rent-Roll.
Mr. Thurburn.-The system now is the same as it has been for several years past?
A.-Yes, the general system of book-keeping.
The Chairman.—When you took charge did you make any change in the system? A.-No. Changes were made as I joined, or just before I joined. The ledger, for instance, used to be kept by the Audit Office, but I do not know whether it was a year before, or just when I took charge, that it came to the Treasury.
Q.-When you took charge Mr. Nicolle was in the Colony?
A.-Yes.
Q. And the changes you speak of were made in consequence of his being here? A. Yes.
Q.-What staff had you in the Treasury then?
A.-I had the cashier, Mr. J. A. Carvalho. He was cashier and first clerk. The second clerk and accountant was Alves, The third clerk was Madar. The fourth clerk was E. A. Carvalho, The fifth clerk was Freire.
Q.-Freire had just joined?
A. Not long before, I think. The sixth clerk was young Mr. Silva.
Q.-What money is actually received into the Treasury? I know in a certain sense that all goes in, but what money actually passes in?
A. About three-quarters of the revenue of the Colony.
Q.-What does that consist of?
A.-Crown rents, taxes, licences, and the Opium Farm fee. There are some subordinate receipts also.
Q.-But those you have mentioned are the principal?
A.-Yes.
(3)
Q.-By taxes, I suppose you mean the 13% on rent?
A. Yes.
Q.-Was there any document showing the division of duties between these officers? A.-No. You mean as to what part of the work each clerk was to perform? No.
Mr. Thurburn.-I suppose it was carried on according to old custom?
A.-Yes, I did not make any alterations when I first joined.
Q. Were these clerks secured at all?
A.-Clerks through whom money is supposed to pass are secured--the shroff and cashier.
Q.-That is to say, Mr. Carvalho was secured?
A. Yes, for $5,000. I am secured for $10,000, and the shroff for $5,000, I think it is.
The Chairman.-Let us take the Crown Rent. Whose duty was it to receive Crown Rent?
A.-It was the duty of the shroff.
Q.-There is a Rent Roll sent every six months from the Land Office?
A.-Yes.
Q.-Have you got it here?
A.-I have got our own Rent Roll, but I haven't Mr. Bruce Shepherd's here. I can send for it. (The book was sent for).
The Chairman. -Will you tell us what was the system in force with respect to Crown Rents?
A.-The system which ought to have been in force, and which I believed to be in force, was that monies were paid to the shroff. If, however, they were sent in envelopes with a letter they were opened by the cashier and the money passed on to the shroff with the memoranda which showed what the money was intended for, or the letter would go to the accountant, that is the second clerk, in order that he should find out whether it is correct. On finding out that it is correct, he should make out a receipt, pass it to the shroff, who, if he had that amount in his possession, should put his chop on it and pass it to the payer.
The amounts should be entered by the shroff in a rough day book kept by him in Chinese, and by the accountant in a day book kept by him in English. At the close of the day the shroff should report to the accountant the amount received by him, the Alves' Day Book and Shroff's rough Chinese Book should be compared, and the cashier informed of the amount to be brought to the credit of the Government. The money should then be taken to the Bank and lodged there.
Mr. Thurburn.-Every day?
A.-Yes.
Mr. Bird.-Did cheques also pass through the shroff's hands?
A. Yes, everything.
Q.-Though made out to your order?
A.-Yes.
Mr. Thurburn.-Could the shroff read English?
A.-No.
Q.-So that he could not check any alteration which might have been made? A. He could only read figures.
668
(2)
The Chairman (to Honourable N. G. Mitchell-Innes).-Mr. Mitchell-Innes, by virtue of this letter I propose to open this Commission to-day, and I think the first person to be called is yourself. You will give us some information as to how the books were kept and so on, in order that we may see what further evidence we shall require.
Honourable N. G. Mitchell-Innes (Colonial Treasurer) called.
The Chairman.-When were you appointed Colonial Treasurer? A.-At the beginning of 1891.
Q.-Did you take office at once?
A. Yes.
Q.--How long had you been in the service before that?
A. For about 9 years.
Q-What positions have
you held?
A.-I had been Assistant Registrar General, Assistant Colonial Secretary, Acting Police Magistrate, Acting Superintendent of the Gaol, and Acting Registrar General.
Q.-When you took over the Treasuryship did you see what books were kept or what was the system of accounts?
A.-I went generally through them.
Q. What books were kept when
you took
up the position?
There is a cash
A.--The books then were practically the same as they now are. book, journal, and ledger, counterfoil receipt books, and subsidiary books for the collec- tion of different items. There is also a Rent-Roll.
Mr. Thurburo.-The system now is the same as it has been for several A.- -Yes, the general system of book-keeping.
years past?
The Chairman.—When you took charge did you make any change in the system? A.-No. Changes were made as I joined, or just before I joined. The ledger, for instance, used to be kept by the Audit Office, but I do not know whether it was a year before, or just when I took charge, that it came to the Treasury.
Q-When
A.-Yes.
you took charge Mr. Nicolle was in the Colony?
Q. And the changes you speak of were made in consequence of his being here? A. Yes.
Q-What staff had you in the Treasury then?
A.--I had the cashier, Mr. J. A. Carvalho. He was cashier and first clerk. The second clerk and accountant was Alves, The third clerk was Madar. clerk was E. A. Carvalho, The fifth clerk was Freire.
Q.-Freire had just joined?
The fourth
A. Not long before, I think. The sixth clerk was young Mr. Silva. Q-What money is actually received into the Treasury? I know in a certain sense that all goes in, but what money actually passes in?
A.
About three-quarters of the revenue of the Colony. Q.-What does that consist of?
A.-Crown rents, taxes, licences, and the Opium Farm fee. subordinate receipts also.
Q-But those you have mentioned are the principal?
A.-Yes,
There are some
(3)
Q-By taxes, I suppose you mean the 13% on rent?
A. Yes.
Q.--Was there uny document showing the division of duties between these officers? A.-No. You mean as to what part of the work each clerk was to perform? No.
Mr. Thurburn.-1 suppose it was carried on according to old custom?
A.--Yes, I did not make any alterations when I first joined.
Q. Were these clerks secured at all?
A.--Clerks through whom money is supposed to pass are secured--the shroff and
cashier.
Q.That is to say, Mr. Carvalho was sccured?
A. Yes, for $5,000. I am secured for $10,000, and the shroff for $5,000, 1 think it is.
Whose duty was it to receive
The Chairman.-Let us take the Crown Rent. Crown Rent?
A-Do you mean receive the
-Yes.
money
?
A.-It was the duty of the shroff.
Q.-There is a Rent Roll sent every six months from the Land Office?
A.--Yes.
Q.--Have you got it here?
A.-I have got our own Rent Roll, but I haven't Mr. Bruce Shepherd's here. I can send for it. (The book was sent for }.·
The Chairman. -Will you tell us what was the systein in force with respect to Crown Rents?
A.-The system which ought to have been in force, and which I believed to be in force, was that monies were paid to the shroff. If, however, they were sent in enve- lopes with a letter they were opened by the cashier and the money passed on to the shroff with the memoranda which showed what the money was intended for, or the letter would go to the accountant, that is the second clerk, in order that he should find out whether it is correct. On finding out that it is correct, he should make out a receipt, pass it to the shroff, who, if he had that amount in his possession, should put
it to the payer.
The amounts should be cutered by the shroff his chop on it and pass in a rough day book kept by him in Chinese, and by the accountant in a day book kept by him in English. At the close of the day the shroff should report to the accountant the amount received by him, the Alves' Day Book and Shroff's rough Chinese Book should be compared, and the cashier informed of the amount to be brought to the credit of the Government. The money should then be taken to the Bank and lodged there.
Mr. Thurburn.-Every day?
A.--Yes.
Mr. Bird-Did cheques also pass through the shroff's hands?
A. Yes, everything.
Q-Though made out to your order?
A.--Yes.
Mr. Thurburn.--Could the shroff read English?
A.-No.
Q-So that he could not check any alteration which might have been made ? A. He could only read figures.
i
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